The MLS is coming to Vancouver
After years of rumours [mbv] it seems like Vancouver is going to get an Major League Soccer (MLS) franchise. Granted it’s at a slightly low point for the MLS, after the David Beckham experiment which was meant to prove that soccer in America was on its way to becoming as much of a force as it is in Europe has failed. Beckham’s decided he prefers playing in the semi-retirement league that is Series A in Italy and is paying out of his own pocket to stay there.
Meanwhile what this means for the Whitecaps we’re not sure. The ownership group of the new team is largely the same as that of the Whitecaps with owner Greg Kerfoot heading the group that paid the $35 million dollar fee for an MLS franchise, but it seems like it’s not a sure thing that the new team will be called the Whitecaps and there’s clearly not enough soccer support to keep the two teams going in Vancouver.
The new team will play in BC Place as opposed to Swangard, because if you can’t sell out Swangard you’re might as well go big and not sell out BC Place.
The example of Toronto FC [mbv] shows that a Canadian city can support professional soccer, but the population and demographics are a lot different in Toronto than they are Vancouver. The success of the new MLS team is hardly a sure thing, on or off the pitch.
Of course now this also means that there’s no way that we’ll ever get any sort of media accreditation for the Whitecaps. While the team is great at calling me back to renew my season tickets, they’ve never once returned an email or a call about press accreditation for covering the Whitecaps games. Any of the photos for the posts on the team I’ve taken have been with a camera that I’ve learned how to smuggle into games.
As a former (damn economy) season ticket owner I hope the new team succeeds. I do think Vancouver hast the potential to support another major league sports franchise in town, and this will certainly be less of a fiasco than the Grizzlies were, and I am very eager for some higher level soccer to be played in town. Even if there will be no David Beckham. Even if I have to assemble my camera in a washroom stall so that I can cover the games.
There is so much ignorance in your posting, I couldn’t help but jump through the registration hoops to respond:
1. Your comments about the Beckham situation are clearly absurd. Never was it suggested that MLS was ever going to challenge the top leagues in Europe. The only ones to suggest that much were those looking to spin the whole situation as a failure. Beckham is a global brand, and his choosing MLS sent shock waves throughout the global football community and generated a buzz about MLS. Nobody expected he’d be able to challenge for a spot on the England roster for the World Cup, and so he went on to play on one of the top teams in Europe in one of the best leagues in the world. Every year the best players in the CFL take off to try and get jobs in the NFL, but nobody seems to spin that as a failure for Canadian Football. But it’s already mission accomplished for the MLS as Beckham has paved the way for many other footballers to play in MLS and generated a huge amount of interest in the sport.
2. Why would you suggest that there might be two soccer teams in the city (MLS team and a USL team)? If you did your homework you would have realized that they will be departing the USL to enter the MLS, so having to support two soccer franchises is a non-issue.
3. The Vancouver Whitecaps were one of the most successful USL franchises on the continent and had some of the best fan support. In fact, it’s unbelievable that they’ve managed to attract as many fans for as many years as they have, considering the USL is a really low level league. By contrast, Toronto never supported their USL team.
4. In terms of the competitive landscape, it’s almost impossible to envision a scenario in which they fail. There is a gaping hole for major league sports in this city, and I would argue that the team only has one major league team, the Canucks. The new MLS team will not directly compete with the Canucks, but it will likely compete with the Lions, although both can likely coexist.
That being said, the CFL is a minor league for an American sport that has no global reach or interest. There’s only 8 teams in the entire league, which makes winning the Grey Cup maybe the least difficult of any professional sport. Of those 8 teams, you’ve got small cities like Winnipeg, Hamilton, and Saskatchewan that make up the bulk of your franchise. The CFL is not in the same class as the MLS, and I think it will soon become apparent to fans in this city.
5. True soccer fans understand how important this is for player development and our national team. It’s about more than just cheering for your team, but also developing good young talent that can make it on the world stage and one day represent your country in the World Cup. We can’t keep sending 15 year olds over to Europe, as many are not able to cope emotionally (see Jacob Lensky) or they end up defecting for greener pastures (see Jonathan De Guzman). We desperately need more teams in MLS, and the Vancouver franchise is a huge step forward for the development of our national team. Real soccer fans understand this and will support MLS because they’ll also understand they are supporting the foundation for Soccer in this nation.
6. Your complaints about media accreditation stinks like someone who is bitter they didn’t get something (tickets) for free. Why don’t you email the Canucks and tell them you have a blog, and ask them if they’ll hook you up with some free tickets so that you can take your own pictures? I guess you don’t have to be a CEO of a major corporation to have a sense of entitlement.
"1. Your comments about the Beckham situation are clearly absurd. Never was it suggested that MLS was ever going to challenge the top leagues in Europe."
Well not knowing who you are I can’t say if you ever claimed that, but that was certainly the intention of the Galaxy and the MLS who helped foot the bill for Beckham’s arrival in the MLS. The idea was, as it was back when the NASL was recruting stars, that Beckham was a sign that the MLS was a serious league with a level of football that was closing the gap on Europe.
"2. Why would you suggest that there might be two soccer teams in the city (MLS team and a USL team)? If you did your homework you would have realized that they will be departing the USL to enter the MLS, so having to support two soccer franchises is a non-issue."
None of the reports that I’ve seen anywhere say specifically that the Whitecaps USL team are folding. The closest that I can find is in the press release where it says "Vancouver Whitecaps FC will continue to field a USL-1 team during the 2009 and 2010 seasons." That’s hardly conclusive. I could say that the Canucks will continue to field an NHL team for the 2009 and 2010 seasons, but that doesn’t mean they’re going to shut down in 2011. Using a madeup name you have the luxury of saying anything you’d like. I’m giving the facts here, or opinion in places, and so I’d like to stand by what I say. I don’t just get to assume things if it’s not been stated.
"3. The Vancouver Whitecaps were one of the most successful USL franchises on the continent and had some of the best fan support. In fact, it’s unbelievable that they’ve managed to attract as many fans for as many years as they have, considering the USL is a really low level league. By contrast, Toronto never supported their USL team."
We’re out of the range of pure facts here and into opinion. Yes for a USL team the Whitecaps have had good support, but enough support not to make BC Place looking ridiculous during home games? Swangard holds a bit over 5,000 maybe 6,000 when they bring in the rafters. BC Place is ten times that, and so the question of whether it’s too big is valid.
Just because Toronto didn’t support the USL but then did the MLS is a good sign for the league here, but is certainly not iron clad proof of anything. It’s not completely insane to question whether a professional sports league might fail in Vancouver. I mean people thought the NBA was going to work here.
"4. In terms of the competitive landscape, it’s almost impossible to envision a scenario in which they fail."
You sir (or madam) lack imagination. You make some good points, but it is well within the realm of possibility that the league could fail. I’m not saying it’s destined to, but nothing in life is a sure thing.
"5. True soccer fans understand how important this is for player development and our national team…. Real soccer fans understand this and will support MLS because they’ll also understand they are supporting the foundation for Soccer in this nation."
I always get antsy when someone starts talking about "true" or "real" anything. I didn’t realize that there was a test to pass to like soccer or be a football fan. If there is I’m sure that’s not going to do anything to help grow the sport in North America.
You make some good points about player development and the national team, but having an MLS franchise isn’t a direct line to having a better national team. The English Premier League is arguably the foremost league in the world but the England national team hasn’t won anything since 1966 and the league is a showcase for players from all around the world rather than a development system for English stars. Will it be good for the national team, yes, but it’s not as direct as you suggest.
Also the national team argument does not really work to sell tickets, which is what the team will require. I doubt many people go to the Canucks games because it helps the Canadian national side, and the MLS will have to succed for fail on its own.
"6. Your complaints about media accreditation stinks like someone who is bitter they didn’t get something (tickets) for free. Why don’t you email the Canucks and tell them you have a blog, and ask them if they’ll hook you up with some free tickets so that you can take your own pictures? I guess you don’t have to be a CEO of a major corporation to have a sense of entitlement."
Here’s the thing, after being a season ticket holder for years to the Whitecaps I would have liked at least a response to my request for press credentials. Do I feel entitled to be treated like a professional journalist by an organization that I cover? Yes. Did I say I wanted free passes, no I said I’ve been paying my own way for years and I just would have liked some response from them. If I had been a Canucks season ticket holder for a few years and had been giving them coverage on the site I don’t think it’s entirely unreasonable that I would expect a reply to a request for media accrediation.
Since this post went up Nathan Vanstone with the Whitecaps has been in touch and we’ve talked about photo access for this coming season, which hopefully we’ll see.
[…] you missed it yesterday Major League Soccer is coming to Vancouver in 2011 [mbv], and you can reserve your right to be the first in line for seasons tickets starting tomorrow at […]
In response to your posts:
1. There’s a difference between saying that the MLS is looking to close the gap with Europe, and what you originally stated: "the David Beckham experiment which was meant to prove that soccer in America was on its way to becoming as much of a force as it is in Europe has failed". Did you really think that signing one player would suddenly put it on par with the Premiership?
2. Here is the statement from USL regarding the Whitecaps and their departure from USL: http://tinyurl.com/df7qp4
3. They are going to close off the top bleachers for the Whitecaps and will only make 20k seats available. BC Place should closely resemble Commerzbank-Arena in Germany when complete – it will use the same technology, is similar size, and will be done for around the same cost. I’d still prefer a soccer specific stadium, but this is fine for the duration of their 5 year lease until Kerfoot can build a soccer specific stadium on the waterfront or elsewhere. After watching the awesome atmosphere and game in Seattle last night, I’m confident it’s going to be just fine.
4. That’s common sense that any business could fail, but I’d say that the likelihood of success is high. The Grizz were completely different – they competed directly with the Canucks and lost. Tickets cost the same, the schedule conflicted, required the same corporate sponsors, even the stadium they played in was the same. MLS will be the premier summer sport in the city and will offer a completely different product.
5. I’m not even going to debate this point because you’re simply wrong. Just because England hasn’t one a World Cup doesn’t mean that they aren’t deep with talent and the Premiership hasn’t pumped out all kind of talent through all their football academy’s. The World Cup may just be the most difficult tournament to win on the planet, as football is a global sport with very strong nations and players on all continents.
If you’d been following Canadian Soccer over the years, you’d understand the arguments being made about MLS and its importance for the development of our national team. Just look at how far the USA has come since the inception of MLS, and I think the 2002 World Cup definitely gave the league a big boost, credibility, and its fans something to cheer about. The international aspect about the sport gives it a huge competitive advantage over the CFL.
6. I got a sense of negativity from your post, and it’s a shame that you’ve let something like that get in the way of good journalism. I don’t understand how you can call yourself a football fan, and then poo poo all over the MLS announcement because MLS isn’t the Premiership and is somehow below you. Step off your high horse, stop complaining, and join the football community here in Vancouver rejoicing about this great day!
"1. There’s a difference between saying that the MLS is looking to close the gap with Europe, and what you originally stated: "the David Beckham experiment which was meant to prove that soccer in America was on its way to becoming as much of a force as it is in Europe has failed". Did you really think that signing one player would suddenly put it on par with the Premiership?"
He wasn’t single handedly going to raise the quality of the league but as I said he was meant to "prove" that the league was nearing those of Europe. It didn’t prove that, largely because the league isn’t. However you look at it losing Beckham is egg on the face of the MLS, especially since he’s taking a pay cut to play in Italy. The impression it’s given the rest of the world is that is that the MLS isn’t as good. And his leaving is going to make it harder to sell out away Galaxy games, including in Vancouver.
"2. Here is the statement from USL regarding the Whitecaps and their departure from USL: http://tinyurl.com/df7qp4"
Okay, so there’s the information. Now I know. This was not presented on the official site for Vancouver’s MLS bid, or covered in any of the press releases. I have to admit I never visit the USL site.
"3. They are going to close off the top bleachers for the Whitecaps and will only make 20k seats available. BC Place should closely resemble Commerzbank-Arena in Germany when complete – it will use the same technology, is similar size, and will be done for around the same cost."
Empty seats are empty seats, whether or not they were ever put up for sale. There’s every chance that it’s far too cavernous to be an intimate setting for soccer and that there’s going to be no atmosphere. Now maybe that’s not going to be terrible, but it’s a concern.
"3. They are going to close off the top bleachers for the Whitecaps and will only make 20k seats available. BC Place should closely resemble Commerzbank-Arena in Germany when complete – it will use the same technology, is similar size, and will be done for around the same cost."
Again, good points. I hope it succeeds. Not sure it will, but nobody knows. Ideally the team will feel far less like foreign mercenaries than the Grizzlies did. The Canucks, for all their Swedes, feel like they belong in Vancouver. The Grizzlies’ players always seemed to feel like they were just here until they could get traded.
"5. I’m not even going to debate this point because you’re simply wrong. Just because England hasn’t one a World Cup doesn’t mean that they aren’t deep with talent and the Premiership hasn’t pumped out all kind of talent through all their football academy’s."
You seem like the kind of guy/gal who knows a bit about European football, so I’m surprised you’ve missed the long running debate on whether or not the Premier League is doing enough to promote English players. A number of people complain that the wealth of the Premier League means that it’s an easier and quicker fix to bring in a talented player from overseas than to develop them in the academies. Arsenal above all are criticized for this.
"6. I got a sense of negativity from your post, and it’s a shame that you’ve let something like that get in the way of good journalism. I don’t understand how you can call yourself a football fan, and then poo poo all over the MLS announcement because MLS isn’t the Premiership and is somehow below you. Step off your high horse, stop complaining, and join the football community here in Vancouver rejoicing about this great day!"
I don’t feel that being skeptical or realistic about something is incompatible with being a fan of football. Trust me I’m skeptical and downright insulting of the Canucks on a regular basis, but I still go to the games and cheer for the goals. I do hope that it succeeds, but that doesn’t mean I have to lose any sense of objectivity.
Well, I’m done debating and respect your right to opinion. I must say however that I disagree with you on many points. MLS is not the Premiership, but it’s not meant to be. Neither is the J-League in Japan, the K-League in Korea, or the many other leagues that make up the rest of the planet. It is however an improving league with a relatively good quality of football, and it’s also a breeding ground for young North American footballers.
I will leave you with the highlights of Seattle’s first game in MLS – the same USL team that could barely draw a few thousand supporters a few years ago, in a non-soccer specific NFL stadium (with no atmosphere as you put it), with empty seats galore, on artificial turf, in the soccer loathing USA, competing against NFL and MLB. Would you have predicted this kind of success two years ago when they were granted an expansion franchise?
http://web.mlsnet.com/media/player/mp_tpl.jsp?w_id=32334&catCode=game_packages&gid=2009/03/19/rbnmls-seamls-1&type=v_sub&_mp=1
I hope you jump aboard the bandwagon – I’m picking up my seasons tickets tomorrow, and hopefully there’s something left when you finally decide to come around. Really looking forward to making the trip down to Seattle!
I’m just not as convinced as you are that the MLS coming to Vancouver will be the cure-all tonic that you seem to think it is. Last year there were only three teams that made a profit in the MLS, and while it’s getting better the economy just went in a nosedive. Vancouver, like Toronto, might be a great franchise but the MLS could always fold from underneath it. It’s happened before.
And having seen Manchester United play Celtic in the QWest stadium in Seattle I’m going to go out on a limb and say that it was a much nicer stadium than BC Place is. Granted BC Place might look great after the reno, so we’ll see how it comes out. I didn’t see the Galaxy/Whitecaps game there, so I can’t comment as to how its atmosphere is now.
Again we’ll see. I’m hoping to go to a Sounders game this year, hopefully they can keep the crowds up. As I said it’s not about jumping on a bandwagon, I’ve been a season ticket holder for a few years now, it’s about being realistic.